 | |
|  |
BlueMax
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 4:35AM
Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
North Carolina
Posts: 200
| Thanks for putting it that bluntly, Nebu. Now that I think about it, I don`t give a damn either, until we can live there and shuttle back and forth as a daily routine. |
Signum666
Marine
January 23rd, 2004 @ 5:24AM
Registered:
2003-10-27
Location:
Netherlands
Posts: 492
| So, you`re going into frozen hibernation when you die? |
SageOHaze
Marine
January 23rd, 2004 @ 5:40AM
Registered:
2003-08-18
Location:
USA
Posts: 209
| Geeky post here..... |
Joe-Randomosity
Special Ops
January 23rd, 2004 @ 6:15AM
Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
PA
Posts: 402
| Considering its going to sap billions awawy from an already over spent budget, you should care, and be pissed we're even doing it.
|
KboT
Muted
January 23rd, 2004 @ 7:02AM
Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
Newfoundland, Canada
Posts: 149
| Biodomes on Mars Please. |
AfterBurn
Kali Compton
January 23rd, 2004 @ 7:25AM
Registered:
2003-03-25
Location:
Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 375
| Joe - it is money well spent - this mission is very important and the ones to come will have greater importance.
Last time I checked - the persuit of knowledge is what furthers human kind the most. |
IvanG
O Canada
January 23rd, 2004 @ 7:57AM
Registered:
2003-08-05
Location:
Canada
Posts: 197
| What kind of knowledge do we get from going to Mars? Hell, what kind of knowledge did we get from goin to the moon? Name me one solid scientific benefit to do doing any of this.
Don`t get me wrong, I support it. But I only do because I think it`s cool. I want there to be space colonies in orbit and on Mars and on the moon, and then I want there to be space wars, so that I can lead a group of oppressed colonial citizens into revolution against the corrupt Earth government. And I want to have sex in zero-gravity, which would be pretty hot.
And if I can`t do this, I want my children to be able to. |
DaveUF
Hippy
January 23rd, 2004 @ 8:05AM
Registered:
2003-05-17
Location:
Virginia
Posts: 1012
| Are you guys talking about the rover missions or the planned manned mission to Mars? The rover missions are something to be lauded. The prohibitively-expensive manned Mars mission plans are another story altogether....... |
Picky
Marine
January 23rd, 2004 @ 8:15AM
Registered:
2003-11-25
Location:
US
Posts: 181
| Haven`t these been planned since the Clinton administration?
Last I recall, the books were being cooked at that point and the economy looked like it was in the blue... so I don`t think you got a point Joe. Then of course there is AfterBurn`s point, which just brings things into perspective. |
wardie
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 8:24AM
Registered:
2004-01-21
Location:
Colorado
Posts: 3
| Americans need something to get excited about. As any great leader in our time or in our history would tell you, people must have grand goals that will allow them to accomplish grand things. Great civilizations of the past have created great and wonderful things. The Great Wall of China, The Eiffel Tower, and the Coliseum are all great works of human works. What does the US have left to get excited for…what do we have to aspire too? We defeated the largest empire in history in gaining our independence from the Brits, ended World War I, defeated the Germans and Japanese in World War II, Created the largest weapons ever made, landed men on the moon, ended the soviet threat to the world, and now we are….doing…what? There is no other country at this time that can in any way stand up to the US in any fashion.
We are almost 50 percent of the worlds economic output, the rest of the world can’t match US output. The US has more military spending then all other countries combined. Our economic growth is more then triple of what Europe has been over the last 10 years. We are pulling ahead of the world, not falling behind. The US is more powerful then the rest of the entire world. There is no other country that is worth our time to compete with. How low would we have to lower our standard to compete with Europe, Asia, or Africa?
The only real argument I hear on why not to go is simply put “we have needs to fix on this world before we go to others.” The flaw of this thought is not everything that needs to be fixed deals with throwing money at it. Infrastructure is something that will take money to upkeep, but taking care of the poor, feeding the hungry, that is done though grown job in an economy, not through spending but by lowering taxes and creating wealth for everyone in America. There are plenty of economic incentives to go the on it’s own, that I am leaving out here, but I will leave that section for anther day!
|
Howland
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 8:37AM
Registered:
2003-11-17
Location:
Toronto, Canada
Posts: 107
| I agree w/ Afterburn- too many people look at short term results.
Including politicians, because that`s what gets them votes, which is why space exploration will always be kept on the back-burner to some extent.
The only exception will be if the public suddenly becomes really enthusiastic about it for some reason, like they were in the 1960`s. |
DarkShear
Marine
January 23rd, 2004 @ 8:46AM
Registered:
2003-04-22
Location:
Seattle
Posts: 691
| And the spending of money that is already very tight is foolishness. It`s every kids dream to go to the moon and to explore outerspace at one time or another. But it is a total pipedream to say this is a grand idea at time when money is tight nation wide. |
MacSpoofing
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 8:55AM
Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
Posts: 220
| There will always be "better" things to spend money on than space missions.
I`m sure there were quite a few people who were against the moon mission because of the expense. Yet those are considered the hallmark of human acheivement.
|
BloodSpirit
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 8:59AM
Registered:
2003-12-17
Location:
USA
Posts: 142
| you are right about the persuit of knowledge AfterBurn while I completely support a trip to mars, however with our current technology, it would cost about 400 billion dollars to fund just ONE flight to the red planet .... would that money not be better spent on fixing some of the many problems we have in our country or catching terrorists which include Osama Bin Laden who by the looks of it will die of old age before we put him to justice. |
Joe-Randomosity
Special Ops
January 23rd, 2004 @ 9:23AM
Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
PA
Posts: 402
| "Joe - it is money well spent - this mission is very important and the ones to come will have greater importance.
Last time I checked - the persuit of knowledge is what furthers human kind the most."
I'm not saying it isn't a worthy cause, it is; The trip is just a poor allocation of limited resources. The government is racking up huge debts. Is now really the time to spend ridiculous amounts of money on what is really a superfluous, albeit worthwhile, goal?
I say no. |
AfterBurn
Kali Compton
January 23rd, 2004 @ 9:24AM
Registered:
2003-03-25
Location:
Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 375
| And I quote:
What kind of knowledge do we get from going to Mars? Hell, what kind of knowledge did we get from goin to the moon? Name me one solid scientific benefit to do doing any of this.
Don`t get me wrong, I support it. But I only do because I think it`s cool. I want there to be space colonies in orbit and on Mars and on the moon, and then I want there to be space wars, so that I can lead a group of oppressed colonial citizens into revolution against the corrupt Earth government. And I want to have sex in zero-gravity, which would be pretty hot.
And if I can`t do this, I want my children to be able to.
///////////----------
You made this easy for me. You are Canadian. It is not your money so shut the hell up. You did nt get anything because you were not involved. In order to get something you need to give something. I think it is reasonable to say money can yeild knowledge.
EDITED: 2004-01-23 09:26:14
EDITED: 2004-01-23 09:28:19 |
Drunken Caper
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 9:52AM
Registered:
2003-12-12
Location:
Canada(Nova Scotia)
Posts: 6
| To say Canadians were not involved is false. Canadians are very much involved with the research of space technology. I know that the lenses on the Mars rover were a Canadian invention for one. I can`t remember the details but I remember watching a news segment a week or so ago about it. Canadians have been contributing to space programs for many years now... CanadArm anyone? And many Canadians have gone into space.
To tell Canadians in general to "shut the hell up" is not fair. It`s just that guy that`s an idiot. "What kind of knowledge do we get from going to Mars?" he says... slap slap, there`s a new press release practically everyday stating something new they discovered. This knowledge is priceless and can have endless possibilities.
Money can yield knowledge.. yes and no. Universities seek grants all the time so they can conduct more research, yet sometimes people discover things out of the blue.
I was just kind of shocked when you said Canadians were not involved when you clearly didn`t know much about it. Don`t get me wrong, the U.S. definately pumps way more money into the whole operation, but the bulk of the costs are towards building the technology. The Canadian space programs are focused more on the research aspect of the whole thing. Am I right or wrong? Arguements welcome. |
Jubedgy
Marine
January 23rd, 2004 @ 10:14AM
Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
Groton, CT
Posts: 287
| Money isn`t THAT tight right now. The economy (appears) to be recovering, and hopefully Bush`ll manage to get his 1% growth thinger. I say we should put a check box on tax forms for offering donations to space exploration, kind of like the one for donating to the election the fund whatchamacallit thing (hey, it`s been a year since I filled out the forms last time!). Then Joe can leave it blank and not support it if he thinks he can`t afford it, meanwhile everyone who does can check it and donate $1.00 or $5.00 or whatever.
Hopefully in 25 years or so (47 isn`t TOO old, is it?) you`ll see me in Mars1 waving out the window as the Earth turns into a tiny blue speck in the darkness... |
Scuba-V
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 10:28AM
Registered:
2003-07-09
Location:
USA
Posts: 57
| A few corrections: The plan is to send humans to Mars in 10, 15 or even 20 years down the road, not anytime soon. By that time, a whole lot could and will change regarding the economy, world politics etc. Bush isn`t trying to have this done during his administration, just get the foundation set up for another president to build on. Also, the articles I`ve seen mentioned figures around $1 trillion not $400 billion (which includes redesigning and building a new shuttle fleet, since obviously these old ones suck). |
MacSpoofing
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 11:34AM
Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
Posts: 220
| Way to take the high road on this AfterBurn.
A guy can`t have an opinion because he`s Canadian? |
Azzkicker
Muted
January 23rd, 2004 @ 11:45AM
Registered:
2003-06-06
Location:
Posts: 11
| A ton of our technologies have come from the moon missions and other space endeavors.
http://www.nasa.gov/audience/forstudents/k-4/home/spinoffs_feature_k_4.html
Necessity is the mother of invention.
So in conclusion, you should care about the mission to mars. |
Unknown Relic
O Canada
January 23rd, 2004 @ 11:48AM
Registered:
2003-10-23
Location:
Vancouver
Posts: 12
| "What kind of knowledge do we get from going to Mars? Hell, what kind of knowledge did we get from goin to the moon? Name me one solid scientific benefit to do doing any of this."
Ivan, man you should really do some reasearch before spouting off nonsense like that. Aside from the computer/electronic technologies which were invented for the moon missions (and which your computer today is largely still based on) there are thousands of things which play a part in our everyday life which we have Nasa to thank for. Yes AfterBurn, even as Canadians.
Examples:
Bar Codes - Yes, these were developed by Nasa to keep track of millions of spacecraft parts.
Smoke Detectors - Developed for Skylab which was launched in 1973.
Cordless Power Tools - Originally developed to help Apollo astronauts drill for moon samples.
Advanced Plastics - How often do you use plastic in your day to day life? Shampoo containers, pop bottles, peanut butter. These types of plastics were all originally developed by Nasa.
Medical Imaging - Nasa developed ways to process signals which were transmitted from space craft to produce clearer images. Ever heard of CAT scans? MRIs? These are based on technology developed by Nasa for the Apollo missions. More recently technology used in Hubble has aided in screening people for breast cancer.
Land Mine Disposal - The same solid rocket fuel used by the space shuttle is incorporated into a device which is remotely ignited, and burns away all explosive in the land mine, disabling it.
Infared Cameras - Originally developed to observe launch plumes.
Not enough for you? Here`s a few more:
http://vesuvius.jsc.nasa.gov/er/seh/spinoff.html |
IvanG
O Canada
January 23rd, 2004 @ 11:53AM
Registered:
2003-08-05
Location:
Canada
Posts: 197
| Damn right I`m Canadian, which is why I support it. It`s not *me* paying for it, and it`s cool. So go for it! Come on, I want to see space lasers and fleets of space cruisers and exotic Martian women!
And fine, I`ll rephrase the question... what direct scientific benefit did AMERICA gain from landing on the moon? |
aero
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 12:23PM
Registered:
2003-12-05
Location:
Chicago
Posts: 133
| Unknown is correct, our society has gained so many things from the research that they had to do in order to go to the moon. Yes, it is an enormous about of money, but it isnt just being spent to go to mars. This money will improve all of our lives. |
DaveUF
Hippy
January 23rd, 2004 @ 12:51PM
Registered:
2003-05-17
Location:
Virginia
Posts: 1012
| IvanG, a quick example of the benefits of moon exploration and colonization is Lunar Helium-3. I`m not a physicist, but the proposals to use Lunar He-3 in fusion power plants sound very promising. Clean, abundant power is something that we all need.
|
stwest79
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 12:59PM
Registered:
2004-01-09
Location:
San Jose, CA
Posts: 39
| While I agree that space travel in the past has been a great endeavor and has furthered technology by great bounds, invention and innovation has become a task of the private sector. Stop burdening the tax payers with billions of dollars of money on space programs that could be better invested in other programs or in reducing our already huge debt. |
Millereigner
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 1:07PM
Registered:
2003-10-25
Location:
Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 31
| I just got a Time Magazine discussing this. ill highlight some important parts. If you want it explained, you`ll have to read it yourself.
The Moon: Bush`s date was 2015. In reality, we could pull it off way quicker, but we aren`t able to scrap the ISS or Shuttles til the year 2010 (which are the main money sappers). The only way to go to Moon is on a Saturn V rocket, which are now retired. some sort of thing like moon modules would have to be built.
Reasons for going: Provides a "Base" which is easier to launch from. Other launch option: Lagrange Point L1, bascally Earth and moon gravity cancel. It would be impossible to launch a spacecraft to Mars from Earth, because you`d need a damn big rocket. The moon has much silicon, meaning manufacture solar cells there and beam cheap energy to earth via microwaves. The moon is plentiful in heavy metals, i.e. Titanium, Gold, etc. Moon has lots of Triedeum(sp) essential for Fusion (of course still a theory) but is rare on Earth.
Mars: Bush Sr. Estimated Mars Trip 400 billion (600 billion today). Nasa now estimates 170 billion(not sure if this is for mars/moon or just moon). If we spend the money developing technology, it would easily cut the cost dramatically. Current Technology would yeild 14 month voyage to mars(round trip). A Nasa man says a plasma-propulsion rocket developed in lab would make the trip in 40 days.
No point in going so fast, since Mars probes cost a fraction the cost and seem to be doing a pretty good job so far. :)
|
Phairdon
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 1:13PM
Registered:
2003-06-08
Location:
Auburn, AL
Posts: 155
| stwest79, did you even read what Unknown and Azzkicker posted?
People who just think of the travel to mars as the ultimate goal are IDIOTS. Yes, going to mars is exciting, but it`s the technology that is developed that is the real tangible benefit.
I suggest you people all stop using cell phones, DVD`s, cordless tools...
Be sure to tell the cashier at Wal-Mart to type in the price of every item you buy instead of scanning the bar code as well.
The huge amounts of technology in our society that came from NASA is mind-boggling
Forty years ago, NASA engineers didn`t start one Monday morning by saying, "Gee, I think I`ll work on microchip technology that, 30 years downstream, will lead to digital cameras." But that`s what happened.
The next time you reach for your cell phone, thank NASA. If your doctor recommends an MRI, thank NASA. The space agency deserves another moment of gratitude when you pop in a DVD and settle back for a good movie, or when you reach for a composite golf club, hoping to out-drive your buddies. And think of NASA when a smoke detector blares to save your life.
|
AfterBurn
Kali Compton
January 23rd, 2004 @ 1:24PM
Registered:
2003-03-25
Location:
Phoenix, AZ
Posts: 375
| MacSpoofing: No he cant. |
Jadix
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 1:36PM
Registered:
2003-03-27
Location:
Cali
Posts: 118
| NASA is the most underpayed agency of the united states. Space is all we have left to explore, i hate it when people dont support space exploration. Anyone who says its pointless loses tons of respect from me. |
Ramabas
O Canada
January 23rd, 2004 @ 2:31PM
Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
St. Kitts, Ontario
Posts: 72
| Quaid, start the reactor! |
Dupsi
O Canada
January 23rd, 2004 @ 4:58PM
Registered:
2003-06-29
Location:
Toronto
Posts: 33
| the money would be much better spent if we explored the Ocean instead, we know jack about it and no one seams to care |
thorn
Hippy
January 23rd, 2004 @ 6:35PM
Registered:
2003-06-06
Location:
Sweden
Posts: 744
| Go for it, like the canadian said, Mars is cool and I`m not paying for it. Go go go. |
Justice3865
Peon
January 23rd, 2004 @ 9:04PM
Registered:
2003-03-26
Location:
Grand Rapids, MI
Posts: 319
| Too many god damn long statements...I`m to lazy to read all of this, Space is the future so why not start now |
caspernh
Peon
January 24th, 2004 @ 7:11AM
Registered:
2004-01-02
Location:
Posts: 4
| get your ass to mars
get your ass to mars |
