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Monday, July 11th, 2011SUGGEST NEWS

America
Posted by: Nebuchadnezzar on July 11th, 2011 @ 12:07PM

Analyst: Even Dollar Stores Struggling In ‘Obama Depression’

It sure sucks watching America head down the crapper as we spend billions in other countries to save their asses. Thank goodness people are addicted to video games to forget their troubles.

  • How about we FIX America first before we donate around the world. Bush even ran on that.
  • The Iraq War was pointless. The only way that helped was if Saddam later on got Nukes or WMDs eventually and used them. But you could say that about MANY countries out there. We attack Iraq for ZERO LOOT. We didn't even loot the oil. Think of all the wasted money and lives.
  • For the Afghanistan War, they found Bin Laden in Pakistan. We give 2 billion to Pakistan and they didn't help us with Bin Laden at all. The only way either one of those wars is justified is if it's kept the terrorists killing soldiers instead of coming to American to bomb us.

  • We waste all these billions on stupid shit instead of improving our country. Why do all these other countries have awesome rail lines? Imagine getting on a high speed rail in America and saving the plane ride.
  • Why do several countries have way better internet when we invented it?
  • Just like the movie Idiocracy, everyone is getting stupider as they watch TV, get fat, and do text messaging while driving.
  • The Corporations are actually to blame. They bribe the politicians. The Politicans award all these contracts and get bribed to do so. NONE OF THESE PEOPLE have our best interest at heart. They're all a bunch of greedy fucks after money as they cheat on their wives.
  • None of these corporate aholes that have helped start all these financial issues have ever been punished. They continue on and are awarded bailouts etc.


    Yup I agree totally.

    cobsteele02
    - 2011-07-11 15:16:16


    But what can an American citizen do about it?

    Deester
    - 2011-07-11 14:44:08


    But what can an American citizen do about it?
    I think all you can do is learn Chinese and get ready to move there. haha.

    Ideally you can vote these people out but there's never any GOOD option to vote. It's just douches and turds. Either way you vote you're going to get someone who is dirty. I don't know what can fix it. There's no morals whatsoever in ANY of the candidates. Look at Arnold S. You vote him as the 3rd party candidate and he's all running a family on the side with his maid. hah.

    It used to be, a person cheats on their wife, in political office, that's the end of their career. Now people go who cares, it's their personal business. But what most people don't seem to understand or care is, that if these politicans will fuck their wife or family over. Do you think they will care about unnammed masses they represent? No, they don't care about you. They just want money and power. There's no way they have some good moral code about citizens yet cheat on their wives. It just demonstrates what kind of slimy low life bastards these people really are. Examples: Newt G, John Edwards, Jessie Jackson, Bill Clinton. These people lie to their families, cheat on their marriages, take tax dollars then use them to pay for their mistresses. Then they ALL take bribes for their actions in office from voting a certain way to including bills that favor corporations. Even if you can't nail them on the bribes, they get things you can't really pin on them such as after they are done in office, they go get some cushy job at a corporation that pays them for all the work they did for them while they were in office.
    Corpration A gets contracts or favorable laws or VOTES from the Politican A. Then after it's over, Politician A gets a job at Corporation A that they helped promote and advance. It's a big crock of shit. There was a list of all the former corporation people in positions in the government one time. It's just sick. I suppose that's just the capital system in practice but it's just completely immoral when you're f-ing all the people below you over.

    Notice that Health Bill was filled full of bribes. The politicans vote for it without even reading it as long as whatever pet project or bribe is included. Then the bill is mostly not even about the original issue. It's full of offtopic bribes.

    So what can we do? Nothing. I would say hide your money from the government because they misuse it but that doesn't even work out for Westley Snipes. And Jesus says in the bible render under Caesar what is Caesar (instead of cheating on taxes). You could maybe invest more in other countries but that doesn't help America Either.

    You can't even say serve in the military because then you're just a lap dog of whatever lame political agenda the President has at the time. The only recent noble military actions (besides humanitarian) were:

    WWII, Kuwait (although hey not really our problem), and the hunt for Al'Qada that directly attacked us.

    But even if you serve nobly in the military (every family member of mine before me did) then you're still caught up in nonsense actions that we shouldn't be involved in (Vietnam, Iraq War, Kosovo, etc).

    At least most people (online anyway) are starting to realize the bullshit of all of this. But there doesn't seem to be much we can do about it.

    EDITED: 2011-07-11 15:53:43

    Nebuchadnezzar
    - 2011-07-11 15:49:16

    COMMENTS (35) | AMERICA | DIGG
    COMMENTS
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    Deester
    Marine

    July 11th, 2011 @ 2:44PM

    Registered:
    2003-03-26
    Location:
    Missouri
    Posts: 244
    But what can an American citizen do about it?
    BlueFalcon
    Word To Your Mom

    July 11th, 2011 @ 2:53PM

    Registered:
    2003-04-27
    Location:
    Filth-a-delphia
    Posts: 1414
    Amen brother. Grab your gun and let's start a revolution. No, seriously, get your gun.
    cobsteele02
    Marine

    July 11th, 2011 @ 3:16PM

    Registered:
    2004-10-08
    Location:
    O'Fallon Missouri USA
    Posts: 709
    Yup I agree totally.
    Nebuchadnezzar
    The King

    July 11th, 2011 @ 3:49PM

    Registered:
    2003-03-20
    Location:
    Irvine, CA
    Posts: 3775
    But what can an American citizen do about it?
    I think all you can do is learn Chinese and get ready to move there. haha.

    Ideally you can vote these people out but there's never any GOOD option to vote. It's just douches and turds. Either way you vote you're going to get someone who is dirty. I don't know what can fix it. There's no morals whatsoever in ANY of the candidates. Look at Arnold S. You vote him as the 3rd party candidate and he's all running a family on the side with his maid. hah.

    It used to be, a person cheats on their wife, in political office, that's the end of their career. Now people go who cares, it's their personal business. But what most people don't seem to understand or care is, that if these politicans will fuck their wife or family over. Do you think they will care about unnammed masses they represent? No, they don't care about you. They just want money and power. There's no way they have some good moral code about citizens yet cheat on their wives. It just demonstrates what kind of slimy low life bastards these people really are. Examples: Newt G, John Edwards, Jessie Jackson, Bill Clinton. These people lie to their families, cheat on their marriages, take tax dollars then use them to pay for their mistresses. Then they ALL take bribes for their actions in office from voting a certain way to including bills that favor corporations. Even if you can't nail them on the bribes, they get things you can't really pin on them such as after they are done in office, they go get some cushy job at a corporation that pays them for all the work they did for them while they were in office.
    Corpration A gets contracts or favorable laws or VOTES from the Politican A. Then after it's over, Politician A gets a job at Corporation A that they helped promote and advance. It's a big crock of shit. There was a list of all the former corporation people in positions in the government one time. It's just sick. I suppose that's just the capital system in practice but it's just completely immoral when you're f-ing all the people below you over.

    Notice that Health Bill was filled full of bribes. The politicans vote for it without even reading it as long as whatever pet project or bribe is included. Then the bill is mostly not even about the original issue. It's full of offtopic bribes.

    So what can we do? Nothing. I would say hide your money from the government because they misuse it but that doesn't even work out for Westley Snipes. And Jesus says in the bible render under Caesar what is Caesar (instead of cheating on taxes). You could maybe invest more in other countries but that doesn't help America Either.

    You can't even say serve in the military because then you're just a lap dog of whatever lame political agenda the President has at the time. The only recent noble military actions (besides humanitarian) were:

    WWII, Kuwait (although hey not really our problem), and the hunt for Al'Qada that directly attacked us.

    But even if you serve nobly in the military (every family member of mine before me did) then you're still caught up in nonsense actions that we shouldn't be involved in (Vietnam, Iraq War, Kosovo, etc).

    At least most people (online anyway) are starting to realize the bullshit of all of this. But there doesn't seem to be much we can do about it.

    EDITED: 2011-07-11 15:53:43
    Charkoth
    Right Wing Extremist

    July 11th, 2011 @ 5:12PM

    Registered:
    2003-05-08
    Location:
    OHIO
    Posts: 2570
    I have to disagree with some of this.

    Iraq and Afghanistan were necessary to show the world that messing with the US has consequences. Both of those theatres could have been execute much better than they were but we made WAY too many mistakes there. Without attacking Afghanistan and to some degree continuing to ignore Saddam's threats against the US we were telling the world we didn't have the balls to stick with it until the end. Now at least the world knows we mean business.

    As far as internet and rail lines go, the countries with the greatest communications and transportation could all fit inside of a large state in the US. The US is far greater in size than any of those countries and far less populated so it is more expensive.

    As far as politics are to blame, the majority of the population on the public dole are as much to blame as the corporations. You can't blame any company for trying to create and environment where they have a competitive advantage, it is what they do. Same with people really. The only way you can stop it is to get government out of people's lives by lower taxes (less influencing your decisions) and less regulations and subsidies. Most corporate corruption in government is through a subsidy of some kind....elimate that shit!

    RyanS
    Marine

    July 11th, 2011 @ 5:15PM

    Registered:
    2003-03-26
    Location:
    Michigan
    Posts: 169
    What needs to happen is a switch to local government and less federal government.

    I think it is on the way. Have you heard about Texas trying to save the incandescent light bulb? It is a federal regulation, but they are going to skirt it by having locally owned businesses able to produce and sell the bulbs in Texas only. No interstate commerce of the product = no regulation.

    Should be an interesting next 10 years or so.
    progjmr
    Marine

    July 11th, 2011 @ 5:20PM

    Registered:
    2003-06-06
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    Posts: 144
    Charkoth - What a load. It is lowering taxes that has us in this mess. Large corporations pay nothing or next to it, the oil companies make record profits and still get subsidies, the super rich still get their tax breaks and... Where are the jobs? We`ve been hearing how tax breaks for the uber wealthy will create jobs for a decade now... Well? Face it, it`s a lie. They take their record profits and give themselves millions and ship our jobs over seas. Screww em, tax them until they bleed.
    The Fu
    Peon

    July 11th, 2011 @ 5:47PM

    Registered:
    2004-02-08
    Location:
    Northeast USA
    Posts: 48
    "As far as internet and rail lines go, the countries with the greatest communications and transportation could all fit inside of a large state in the US. The US is far greater in size than any of those countries and far less populated so it is more expensive.

    As far as politics are to blame, the majority of the population on the public dole are as much to blame as the corporations. You can`t blame any company for trying to create and environment where they have a competitive advantage, it is what they do. Same with people really. The only way you can stop it is to get government out of people`s lives by lower taxes (less influencing your decisions) and less regulations and subsidies. Most corporate corruption in government is through a subsidy of some kind....elimate that shit!"

    Incredibly well said. High speed rail just won`t work in this country. We`re too spread out for it to make sense.
    Truly high speed internet will take a lot of time for the same reason. We`re too big and spread out to make the implementation easy. Hong Kong supposedly has GB/s internet for roughly $25 per month but Hong Kong is tiny. Also it has historically been an incredibly open economy which helps in a big way.

    As far as blaming corporations, it goes way beyond that but I think Charkoth said it best. They`re trying to make the country friendly to their practices. Well that`s what we do when we vote and donate. We`ve been trained to view that as evil but it really isn`t if done properly. Of course that`s a whole different ball of wax. In my opinion, you can`t have a great government or a great company without moral and wise people in charge of either. Sadly that`s pretty rare these days.
    killer6600
    Marine

    July 11th, 2011 @ 7:28PM

    Registered:
    2007-06-16
    Location:
    canada
    Posts: 1414
    charkoth canada`s internet is like 10x better than americas, and we`re way bigger than america, you`re dead on with the rails though.

    and if you don`t want corporations raping you for money nebu, you might enjoy some obama socialism, it`s not real socialism, just makes the rich pay a bit more taxes
    bschultz
    Special Ops

    July 11th, 2011 @ 8:40PM

    Registered:
    2003-03-26
    Location:
    Bend, OR
    Posts: 417
    give me a death note and I will fix this shit post haste ;)
    BiVRiP
    General

    July 11th, 2011 @ 11:43PM

    Registered:
    2003-05-11
    Location:
    Canada
    Posts: 2069
    The single greatest deterrent for high speed rail in America isn't cost per se, but zoning. It's what I like to call NIMBS - Not In My Backyard Syndrome.

    You see it every time someone cries about poor cellular reception or champions pretty much any green technology. They're all for building solar panels, wind turbines and cellular towers...so long as they can't see it, hence NIMBS.

    It's also worth noting that China can build these spectacular trains, bridges and so forth because they take eminent domain to a whole new level. They'll gladly displace thousands if not millions of citizens if they happen to reside between Point A and Point B of a given project. They don't care about inconveniencing they're citizenry or environmental impact studies. They just build it.

    As for why Internet sucks in America, I'll direct you to these two links: ARTICLE 1 and ARTICLE 2

    The whole geography / population density argument is bogus. Killer already mentioned Canada, but another apt example are the Nordic countries. Using the figures from THIS table, the US has a population density of 83 people per square mile. Sweden, Finland and Norway have 54, 41, 34 people per square mile respectively. Despite this, all 3 Nordic countries enjoy greater broadband penetration, a higher quality of service and pay much less for it. Yes, these countries are considerably smaller than the US, but they also have an exponentially smaller population in which to draw funds from to pay for the infrastructure.

    Geez, if it were up to some people, we'd still be using dial-up. Which brings up an interesting point. America, by some unknown and strange set of circumstances managed to lay pipes and wires to deliver water and electricity to 95+% of its population, but providing a foundation of high speed internet via fiber optics or even cable/dsl is just impossible and too expensive...right.
    Macavity
    Peon

    July 12th, 2011 @ 12:25AM

    Registered:
    2005-04-16
    Location:
    Posts: 112
    Don`t believe the garbage you read in the news. America is still growing by leaps and bounds. It is just the places that are `politically incorrect` that are growing. States like Texas, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and such are all in an economic boom. These aren`t agricultural economies anymore, but high tech computer industries.

    No matter what one thinks, it can only be bad if one political party is allowed to rule for a long length of time with no competition. Texas changed political parties in 2003 after 136 years of solid Democrat rule. Alabama switched in 2010 after 130 years of one party rule. Georgia was around 120 years of one party rule that ended in 2002. Arizona switched parties after 84 years of one party rule back in 1994.

    The point is what is going on in this region is like what is going in Eastern Europe when Communism collapsed. Economic boom like I`ve never seen before.

    The United States has a highly mobile people where people tend to vote with their feet. When one state does something bad, people leave it and go to another. There`s a reason why companies like Boeing want to move to a place like North Carolina.

    No one is reporting this because it would mean saying a place like New York is a dying state while a state like Alabama is a growing high tech economy. The Industrial Revolution is over and the economy is shifting to some new era. But note that all the political rhetoric is `industrial revolution` stuff. The old political machines based on the Industrial Revolution are shrieking in their deaths. Something like `unions` no longer have a place in the modern world. Much of the madness you are seeing from Obama and Washington is trying to stave off this inevitable demise. Remember that when the Industrial Revolution began, there was a political faction trying to `resume` the Agricultural Era.

    The 70s was a worse situation and everything exploded in the 80s. I expect something very similar to occur. Americans demand economic prosperity, and the people will get what they want. The politicians be damned.
    peekay
    Special Ops

    July 12th, 2011 @ 2:45AM

    Registered:
    2005-09-28
    Location:
    Germany
    Posts: 359
    Link.

    "The Finance Ministry said last week that the Railways Ministry continued to lose money in the first quarter of this year. The ministry’s debt stands at $276 billion, almost all borrowed from Chinese banks."

    “In China, we will have a debt crisis — a high-speed rail debt crisis,” he said. “I think it is more serious than your subprime mortgage crisis. You can always leave a house or use it. The rail system is there. It’s a burden. You must operate the rail system, and when you operate it, the cost is very high.”

    I don`t understand the obsession with trains.
    peekay
    Special Ops

    July 12th, 2011 @ 3:09AM

    Registered:
    2005-09-28
    Location:
    Germany
    Posts: 359
    "What a load. It is lowering taxes that has us in this mess."

    Simply look at any graph that shows revenue vs spending for the last 10-20 years. It shows that A) spending has far outpaced revenue. B} Bush tax cuts brought in more or the same amount of revenue as before they were enacted. C) The US is in a bad recession with no recovery which is the main reason revenues are down.

    BiVRiP, Pop density, isn`t the only thing to think about. Say you have 5 people in a square mile. In country A they are all in the same location, in country B they are spread out all over the place (as Americans tend to do). You see how America builds up along highways/freeways, but you rarely see it here in Southwest Germany for instance. Everything is in a town with stretches of roads winding through forests or fields.
    Smokin Joe
    Marine

    July 12th, 2011 @ 4:52AM

    Registered:
    2006-06-10
    Location:
    The Land of Chocolate
    Posts: 2775
    I always thought the biggest problem was the overall complacency of the American public.

    We're getting lazy, we have too many distractions in the form of cool gadgets, toys, quick fix pills/routines, and promises of instant rewards for trying a product out. The major corporations have gotten the technique down and are now almost systematically ensuring future profits through less work through our politicians.

    It's something that boycotting, intelligent and active voting and the overall shrugging off of ignorance combined with the acceptance of personal responsibility could easily fix.

    Unfortunately, it's easier to reduce the intelligent discourse by attacking and antagonizing people's emotions and opinions. It's so much easier for people to pay attention to individuals or argue about a single person's ideals compared to realizing and understanding compromises that need to be struck to ensure a healthy Nation.

    There are always going to be common goals that need to be realized, and compromises are necessary to reach them, I'm really hoping that people wake up and realize that there are some serious impediments to progress throughout our society and political structure and try to make themselves more able to identify and avoid them.
    Gabe
    Special Ops

    July 12th, 2011 @ 6:05AM

    Registered:
    2006-04-19
    Location:
    Boston
    Posts: 54
    One thing worth considering though Nebu.

    In China, they would put you in jail for writing what you just wrote about America.

    ...That's going to come home to roost one of these days. All its going to take is an Egypt style uprising in China to set the country back 100 years. And its not that hard to imagine.

    For all its flaws, America is still the best country in the world.
    RyanS
    Marine

    July 12th, 2011 @ 6:18AM

    Registered:
    2003-03-26
    Location:
    Michigan
    Posts: 169
    I can`t believe people are posting that canada`s internet is better than the US. Speeds may be better, but they throttle it for the big uses anyway.

    http://www.moviesonline.ca/2011/02/cheaper-alternative-internet-canada/
    meorah
    Marine

    July 12th, 2011 @ 7:02AM

    Registered:
    2003-04-10
    Location:
    Posts: 515
    "Something like `unions` no longer have a place in the modern world."

    Well, I`d be perfectly content to disband every union in the country if corporations will agree to stop having employees sign binding arbitration clauses as a condition of employment.

    See, the problem is that for all the crap that unions pull on businesses, the businesses keep pulling crap on the employees... and without the option of civil court trial by jury of your peers, you lose your last bastion of justice.

    I try to be as pro-business as possible, but you can never forget that the business/employee relationship is analogous to the story of the scorpion and the frog.
    Disastrous Fate
    General

    July 12th, 2011 @ 8:19AM

    Registered:
    2004-02-09
    Location:
    Posts: 1120
    "It is just the places that are `politically incorrect` that are growing. States like Texas, Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and such are all in an economic boom. These aren`t agricultural economies anymore, but high tech computer industries."

    Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong

    I don`t know where this whole meme comes from. I think it`s just conservative wishful thinking. People want to believe that the ol` North is doing crappy because of liberal policies and that the ol` South is booming for the opposite reason. However, unfortunately for the South, it`s all wrong.

    Let`s look at unemployment:
    Florida is at 48th place in the union with 10.6%, Alabama is at 39th with 9.6%, Georgia is at 42nd place with 9.8%, and Texas is right in the middle, at 24th place and 8.0% unemployment. Of all these, Texas is the clear standout, but it`s hardly a regional thing.

    For the record, in the "liberal" Northeast, Pennsylvania, Maryland, New York, New Hampshire, Vermont, Maine, and Massachusetts all have lower unemployment than Texas.

    The rest of the liberal heartland, Oregon, Washington, Connecticut, and New Jersey, are all above most of the South except for Texas.
    Only California and Michigan are in terrible shape as far as liberal states go.

    http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm

    If you go by economic growth instead, you don`t get a very different picture: http://www.bea.gov/newsreleases/regional/gdp_state/gsp_newsrelease.htm

    Growth in the South is mostly motivated by the Northern ring of states: Western Virginia, Virginia, North Carolina. The overall growth rate of the South is 2.3.. versus 3.8 in the Mideast, and even lower than the rust-belt Great Lakes region. Sure, the far west is doing even worse, but Nevada`s tourism has just been ripped to shreds and, as discussed above, California is certainly the best case for a failed liberal state. The problem is, pretty much no other liberal state fits that problem....
    Wootah
    non-leet

    July 12th, 2011 @ 8:52AM

    Registered:
    2003-05-16
    Location:
    Utah
    Posts: 1609
    I am all for eliminating tax breaks, but the spending is the problem.

    Democrats holler for increased revenues, but the problem with that is, that is there is more money flowing in, then politicians look at it and say 'hey, we have cash, we should spend it'. I don't trust politicians and would rather default.

    Default seems like an ugly thing. Sure it forces us to punish people that shouldn't be punished, but unless the US gets their crap in order, pain is the only motivation. And yeah nobody will want to loan to the US at decent rates anymore... again, I don't care. That is a good thing. that means we have to be fisically more responsible and manage our money better.

    And I am all for removing oil tax subsidies and corporate jet tax breaks, but I read that if you eliminated both those tax breaks and all the money saved from those over 50 YEARS would be as much as the government spent in the single month of february of 2011. A single month...

    WSJ had a great little article about taxes that already are coming into effect.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303812104576438130028027412.html
    Charkoth
    Right Wing Extremist

    July 12th, 2011 @ 9:16AM

    Registered:
    2003-05-08
    Location:
    OHIO
    Posts: 2570
    progjmr look again, we aren't in debt because we lowered taxes, our income was the highest it had ever been in 2008. We are falling further in debt because we are SPENDING by far more than we've spent since world war II!

    As far as statitics on "large corporations" go, you'll find that the majority of their income is coming from OTHER countries where they are taxed less and they keep the income over seas. Companies that aren't paying taxes are either getting large subsidies or they aren't making it here. Oil companies don't really make a profit in the US. Look it up if you care to, it is easy to find. You probably think Oil companies make their profit when you fill up your gas tank despite the reality that oil companies own less than 5% of the oil reserves and have no control over the price of oil.

    BivRip I get 10MBs for $50/month right now from Time Warner and I never touch that. There is no reason right now for people to need 45MB/s...those speeds are absurd since the most sites throttle their download speeds to less than 1MBS.

    As far as population density goes we have a far greater disparity. Broadband is available everywhere there are a large number of people but we have far more rural areas and mountainous regions with few people within miles of each other that makes broadband access to them cost prohibitive. Either way, the countries you mentioned are comparable to the US, they may have higher penetration but they also have a more even spread of population.
    Smokin Joe
    Marine

    July 12th, 2011 @ 9:17AM

    Registered:
    2006-06-10
    Location:
    The Land of Chocolate
    Posts: 2775
    Notice that Health Bill was filled full of bribes. The politicans vote for it without even reading it as long as whatever pet project or bribe is included. Then the bill is mostly not even about the original issue. It's full of offtopic bribes.

    There's easily just as much fault directed at those who sat idly by and just let the Health Bill get formed - the entire Republican party. They were given a chance to place their input, instead they just let it happen. They were complicit in their complacency.

    They, and people who vote for them have almost no right to complain about the Bill. They should complain to their representatives because they did them a disservice by simply ignoring how it would effect their constituents, but in the end, you can't have the double-standard of, "I'm not going to do anything about issue, but will complain about its results."
    Smokin Joe
    Marine

    July 12th, 2011 @ 9:20AM

    Registered:
    2006-06-10
    Location:
    The Land of Chocolate
    Posts: 2775
    BivRip I get 10MBs for $50/month right now from Time Warner and I never touch that. There is no reason right now for people to need 45MB/s...those speeds are absurd since the most sites throttle their download speeds to less than 1MBS.

    I don't believe you.

    I pay $59.90 a month and get 1.5Mbit/second in NYC. What plan do you have that gives you 10MByte/second?
    Darren
    Red State Cowboy

    July 12th, 2011 @ 10:05AM

    Registered:
    2004-08-30
    Location:
    Dallas, TX
    Posts: 1147
    SJ - Your internet is heavily governed and they simply don't offer it. On the west coast (several years back) I had 10MBs for about that same price. I'm now on the slow plan at 5MBs here in Texas at 39.95 a month.

    And for America: Make the environment business friendly, you will have the jobs. The wealthy have the money but are on strike, keeping their cash and not creating jobs. The politicians howl that more taxes and regs are needed, but at the same time they make it to where there's really no desire by the wealthy to create more jobs here when they can do it elsewhere for less or do nothing at all and maintain the status quo. What is it, 70% of small business owners say they have zero plans to add people? These are your "wealthy", not the asshole CEOs and Wall Streeters that Obama keeps naming who make up a minority of the earners in this country.

    This is the whole problem we've had for 10 years now - the recession we're in now should have hit us around 9/11 but was staved off by the credit markets. Obama in essence did inherit this BS, but he's not really helping.

    The answer: Strengthen existing tax legislation to close loopholes, stop offering subsidies and corporate welfare, get our corporate tax rate in line with other countries (highest in the world wtf?), sunset the programs rife with fraud, get our asses out of these wars, and outlaw monetary donations to political campaign funds from PACs.
    Smokin Joe
    Marine

    July 12th, 2011 @ 11:38AM

    Registered:
    2006-06-10
    Location:
    The Land of Chocolate
    Posts: 2775
    This is the whole problem we've had for 10 years now - the recession we're in now should have hit us around 9/11 but was staved off by the credit markets. Obama in essence did inherit this BS, but he's not really helping.

    I strongly beg to differ. I think our Economy would have completely fallen apart if he had not stepped in with his various initiatives. While many people want him to take more of a leadership role, he really has to be careful because there is an enormous group of the public who will be 100% against anything he ever directly authors - just because.

    And frankly, I think we do need some major regulation in business - but some new programs. I don't want rehashings of existing plans. If we really want to lead the world in technology and consumer electronics, this shit should be illegal - or impossible to do.

    EDITED: 2011-07-12 11:39:37
    Charkoth
    Right Wing Extremist

    July 12th, 2011 @ 12:20PM

    Registered:
    2003-05-08
    Location:
    OHIO
    Posts: 2570
    Smoking Joe I could print you a screenshot if you're still a doubting thomas. My package is just called Road Runner Broadband. I just checked and I can get 15MBS(Road Runner Turbo) for another $5 and 30MBS(Extreme) for another 19.95. I'm currently paying 49.95 ($53 with tax).

    You are in a city and so you're going to get raped on internet costs. Even Roadrunner basic gives me 2MBs.

    I have an outside sales rep in the Houston area who I pay $120/month for 8MBS, it varies state to state and carrier to carrier.

    I have a warehouse in Jacksonville using Comcast that gives me 20MBs for $140 and a warehouse in Hauppauge NY that has 15Mbs for only $75/M from Cablevision, each with static Ips.

    And yeah Joe Lawyers are one of the biggest threats to and one of the biggest drains on our economy. We need some serious Tort reform with regard to malpractice, copyright, and patent lawsuits.

    It is funny that everyone says we live in a capitalist society when we are so very far from true capitalism.

    EDITED: 2011-07-12 12:30:08
    Smokin Joe
    Marine

    July 12th, 2011 @ 12:34PM

    Registered:
    2006-06-10
    Location:
    The Land of Chocolate
    Posts: 2775
    Hahaha, naah, I believe (and are extremely jelly of) your bandwidth abilities.

    Capitalism is a broad term. I mean, isn't there Free Market Capitalism as opposed to other forms?
    BiVRiP
    General

    July 12th, 2011 @ 1:35PM

    Registered:
    2003-05-11
    Location:
    Canada
    Posts: 2069
    BivRip I get 10MBs for $50/month right now from Time Warner and I never touch that. There is no reason right now for people to need 45MB/s...those speeds are absurd since the most sites throttle their download speeds to less than 1MBS.

    With respect, just because you can't or won't capitalize on your internet speed doesn't mean others can't or won't. A few months ago I switched from a 10Mb connection to a 25Mb connection from my ISP (Rogers - $70 before taxes). Without including the rest of my family (we have 3 computers in our home) I regularly max out the connection. Do I *need* the extra speed? No, but having used it for some time now it's a luxury I would be hard pressed to give up. I would go so far as to say it's been almost as impressive as when I switched from dial-up to a 3Mb connection.

    If all you do is visit a handful of sites, update your Facebook page and check your emails, then one could argue you don't *need* broadband at all. But if you want to make the most of the internet has to offer and as more content goes hi-def (case in point, most Americans do not have the necessary speeds to stream Netflix videos in 720p, much less 1080p) then you're going to have to invest in a more robust infrastructure. This makes even more sense if you have a family with multiple computers and each person is doing their own thing.

    Even if you can't wire the whole country, that's no excuse to at least tackle the major metropolitan areas and the surrounding suburbs. Like I said before, if you can do it with water and electricity, there's no reason you can't also do it for the internet, especially since you've already paid for it.

    @ Ryan:
    Small distinction, but throttling is different than the bandwidth caps you're referring to. I'm what you'd classify as a power user and I agree, the limits they have set, especially if you're with Bell are a joke. What's more, the over-usage fees are criminal. Depending on what service you have they can charge up to $2 for every GB you go over. I saw a report that says they pay less than 3 cents for the same GB. That's outrageous and should be illegal.

    But even with those caps, I still think internet in Canada is better because our ISPs do less traffic shaping and the end users doesn't have to worry about the **ia goons coming after you for downloading an mp3.
    Charkoth
    Right Wing Extremist

    July 12th, 2011 @ 2:15PM

    Registered:
    2003-05-08
    Location:
    OHIO
    Posts: 2570
    Sorry I originally thought you were the one quesitoning my bandwidth and corrected that a few moments later when I reread my post. Surprised you got your reply in with your name.

    I don't see how anyone can legally use a 25MBs connection. I have 5 computers in my home and my wife regularly watches shows on two of them at once. Her cap for watching shows isn't through OUR connection it is limited from the provider of the shows.

    If you're breaking 25MBs you are downloading things you don't own. I buy all my music from Amazon in MP3 format and it takes less than a minute usually for an entire album. You'd have to have god knows how many torrents running to need 25MBS.

    Either way why does our society need 25MBs? Is it holding us back? Limiting us in some way? Or is it just making pirate's lives easier by upping those limits. When I see households that benefit from having bandwidth at that level I'll jump on the "we need better broadband" wagon. Right now I think we're doing fine.








    EDITED: 2011-07-12 14:17:40
    progjmr
    Marine

    July 12th, 2011 @ 3:57PM

    Registered:
    2003-06-06
    Location:
    Natick, MA
    Posts: 144
    Charkoth - It is you that needs to look... But not again, just not at FAUX noise talking points. What has increased our spending? oh yeah, the wars good old bush got us involved in. One that he paid no attention to and did not try to win and another that was based on lies and which we never should have gotten involved in.

    As for corporations, they do not go overseas for lower taxes, they go there for cheap labor made possible by the stupid free trade agreements.

    Oil companies don`t make a profit? Simply another fzux lie. Exxon almost doubled to 3.95 billion:
    http://money.cnn.com/2010/07/29/news/companies/Exxon/index.htm

    How many can you spot in the top ten of the global 500:

    http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1280&bih=530&source=hp&q=oil+company+profits+2010&aq=f&aqi=g1g-m3g-b1&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=a734dbde0467cdba

    Pull your head out of the faux noise machine and stop being a tool, see just how badly big business is killing the middle class... I hate to say, we are almost gone and they are dragging this nation down with them.
    BiVRiP
    General

    July 12th, 2011 @ 4:12PM

    Registered:
    2003-05-11
    Location:
    Canada
    Posts: 2069
    Does society need 25Mb? No, just as society doesn't need 400+ hp muscle cars or an iPhone yet people still buy both in droves. You don't have to be a pirate to make use of speeds greater than 10Mbs. Just off the top of my head:

    * Usenet: the speed bottleneck is your ISP.
    * Hi-def streaming services. Using Netflix again, you need at least a 5Mb connection to stream 720p. I've heard that for 1080p, it recommends 10Mbs.
    * P2P - The distribution of content (ex. games, DLC, demos, patches, etc.) is moving more and more towards P2P vs. a dedicated server. Blizzard is the perfect example as it uses P2P as its main distribution model.
    * Steam: When your average game these days is 8-12GB, it's nice to be able to have the content downloaded in under 1h instead of waiting several hours.
    * FTP
    * Services like Dropbox
    * Remote data storage

    Now take the above and throw in other things like Skype and online gaming, multiply it by several family members and you can see its not that hard to max out your connection. And that's using what's available on today's Internet. Who's to say what services will pop up a year or two from now?

    Is it a creature comfort? Sure is. Just like microwaves and dishwashers are but I doubt you'd hear many people come out against those things.
    Charkoth
    Right Wing Extremist

    July 12th, 2011 @ 7:05PM

    Registered:
    2003-05-08
    Location:
    OHIO
    Posts: 2570
    progjmr I don't even have cable, and I've never in my life watched Fox news in my home (can't say for when I've seen it at a restaurant or wherever).

    Did you even LOOK at the debt clock? Did you glance at defense/military spending? That isn't where all the debt came from.

    Exxon makes far more profit outside of the US than within the US, and is one of the largest taxpayers in the US.
    Facts

    "ExxonMobil is one of the largest taxpayers in the United States Last year, our total taxes and duties to the U.S. government topped $9.8 billion, which includes an income tax expense of $1.6 billion. Over the past five years, we incurred a total U.S. tax expense of almost $59 billion, which is $18 billion more than we earned in the United States during the same period."

    EDITED: 2011-07-12 19:10:22
    Charkoth
    Right Wing Extremist

    July 12th, 2011 @ 7:32PM

    Registered:
    2003-05-08
    Location:
    OHIO
    Posts: 2570
    Yes but not everyone wants an Iphone or a 400hp muscle car just like not everyone wants a 45mbs internet connection so why does everyone have to have it?
    Smokin Joe
    Marine

    July 13th, 2011 @ 9:03AM

    Registered:
    2006-06-10
    Location:
    The Land of Chocolate
    Posts: 2775
    Yes but not everyone wants an Iphone or a 400hp muscle car just like not everyone wants a 45mbs internet connection so why does everyone have to have it?

    I think it's that people should have access to it.

    And there are of cases where Cable companies divvy up regions and agree not to compete against each other in certain cities and towns. It's freakin dirty and drives me crazy - growing up we always got screwed because Charter Communications stinks.
    Disastrous Fate
    General

    July 13th, 2011 @ 9:17AM

    Registered:
    2004-02-09
    Location:
    Posts: 1120
    "What is it, 70% of small business owners say they have zero plans to add people?"

    Small businesses aren`t adding because they don`t have enough sales. How do I know this?

    http://www.nfib.com/Portals/0/PDF/sbet/sbet201106.pdf - "It is simple: when sales pick up, owners will have a reason to hire more
    workers to take care of customers, to produce more output and will have a
    reason to invest in new equipment and expansion. The proximate cause of
    the collapse of spending in 2008 was reduced consumer spending."

    Because that`s what they said. Unless you can explain to me how decreased government spending and/or increased taxes will lead to higher sales volume, it sounds like your economic plan for recovery is incoherent.


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